I apparently had a thread plonked on homebrewtalk.com, a website for homebrewers.
The previous day, a member had encouraged me to pony up for premium or lifetime membership (respectively, $25 a year or $100 for life). I understand websites need resources to survive, but I’m a careful shopper, so I checked the FAQ to see what the two fee memberships offered.
One of the perks is access to “Brew Babes.” Hmmm, I thought. So I asked:
I see “Brew Babes” listed as a perk for Premium/Lifetime membership, but in searching HBT, the FAQ, etc. I can’t find a clear description of “Brew Babes.”
A member responded,
And you won’t unless you pony up for a membership either, some things we just don’t talk about on this side of the wall….But I bet you can guess…
To which I responded,
That’s what I was afraid of… so in other words my $100 would be better spent on a donation to the National Organization for Women. It’s not my call how this forum is run but as a consumer I have no interest in subsidizing that stuff — or having friends/colleagues seeing me identified with it, either.
I’m not at all a prude, and it’s the site’s business decision to scope its services to its target market, but now the thread about how few women are on this forum makes a lot more sense. Call it the beer-glass
ceiling.
Followed by other comments in the manner of,
It’s just pictures of beer drinking babies fighting in a club. Nothing to get excited about.
kgs there are many other perks available to premium supporters. brewbabes is just a bonus that guys(and some ladies) really enjoy. I find less advertising and the private forums to be the real value.
To which I responded:
Whatever, and nothing I’m paying for, either. /me sighs
I went out, shopped, came home… and the thread was gone. No note to me, just whooosh! No longer there; tracing my own post history, it is no longer listed.
Entirely their prerogative, of course. It’s a private website, so on and so forth.
I am sure they are thinking “humorless bitch.” You know, the broad who’s no fun (and there are always women who are only too happy to go along with the “fun”).
Fine, whatever. But more and more I’m voting with my pocketbook. No, I will not shop at WalMart, I will not eat at Chick-fil-A (which has been known to harass gay employees), I am eating almost no factory-farmed meat, and I’m not underwriting sexist trash. But this incident has completely emptied the fun out of participating on that website, and that’s too bad — though it’s a good reminder that private forums are just that: privately owned, whimsically managed.
(Librarianesque observation: thank goodness for books!)
The site comments, “Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.” If they ever want someone to represent sensitivity to diverse groups, they know where they can find me.
Meanwhile, I’ve met other brewing librarians, and I keep running into other local homebrewers, and I’ll meet more. It’s a growing craft and a nice skill to have, and there are many nice homebrewers, including at my local home brew store, Home Brew Den, where today at my request they carefully measured out a half-recipe of Plutonian Porter.
Today I’m going to write for six hours, so I will have to save the story of wrassling with nearly fifty pounds of flat beer, aka “How I Bottled My First Batch,” which also explains in part why I’m moving to half-batches. (Short version: I won, and it was fun, but we’re in a small house!)
Hey, it’s always nice to hear about other homebrewing librarians (OK, I’m not a librarian yet, but soon!). We should make our own site, “librewians” or something similarly fun and cheesy. 🙂
It’s kind of strange hearing about the sexism on that site; I’ve found homebrewing to be one of the nicest and most inclusive passtimes, as far as the community around it goes–it does seem to be predominantly male, but not by design or anything. Also, for many, many years, brewing was “women’s work,” and it was predominantly women. I’m not sure when the switch happened, but I imagine it’ll switch back eventually. Or, better, even out entirely. I’m all for more people getting into homebrewing.
Overall my impression is on par with yours, though that site does not have many women on it and some of the comments are borderline homophobic (just in FUN, of course). It may well just be /that/ homebrew community.And yes, I like librewian — good one, Coral 😉
I haven’t actually spent much time in the forums of any beer site, but I do know the American Homebrew Association also has some forums and an email listing. I’ve been avoiding the computer on nights and weekends by large though, so I don’t know what the quality of them are like. From what I ahve seen I have a harder time picturing “brew babes” at any AHA related resource.
It’s strange, the other day I picked up what I thought was “All about beer.”, a beer magazine I pick up every once in a while. There was an odd similar “babe” on the cover, which I thought was weird. I was in a hurry and got it anyway, waiting something to read that night during some traveling. Turns out I just got the magazine “Beer”. Kinda like Maxim, except not very funny. They had one or two articles, but lots of shots of women. Also kind of strange since I really haven’t seen that type of thing in any other beer magazine I’ve seen.
I’ll admit I don’t mind looking at photos of attractive women, but…well, the there’s other places and other magazines *cough*. I’d rather like my beer stuff to be about beer, or at least above the level of a college frat. I doubt it’s a coincidence that it seems like homebrewing is also getting popular with the young 20-some males and that behavior occurs…
So I guess, yes, there’s that community out there. Since I’m rather new to the hobby it’s hard to tell what the percentages of them make up the hobby. Oh well, back to making some chorizo and thinking about a wit beer.
Oh, how about libeerians?
Chorizo++
I don’t mind looking at photos of attractive women, either, when you get down to it, but I have a hunch the “Brew Babes” appeal to a certain type… and the whole women-fighting-men-watching stuff makes my stomach churn. “Frat house” is the vibe, thank you.
I picked up the (hard to spell) AHA magazine at Tattered Cover, and enjoyed it thoroughly. Very beer-geeky and still over my head, but fun to read. If I’m going to spend $, I believe AHA at least has a lobby (there are still states that don’t allow homebrewing!).
Libeerians? Hmmm…
I’m a librarian, not a homebrewer – I just drink what my husband makes. The local shop in Minneapolis is Northern Brewer, and they do a big mail order business too. If you find anything as lame as Beer Babes there, let me know – I’ll give my friend who is VP of customer service hell!
Liz, I bet they are just fine — and they have a very cool glass/teeshirt print:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/pics/fullsize/CBD-shelter.jpg
Oh ewww. Somehow I missed the whole catfight comment the first time I read the post.
Whole ‘nother level of creep there. I’ve never understood the catfight thing.
Well, shoot. I’m surprised and disappointed that you had that experience on HomeBrewTalk.com. I’ve been a member and premium supporter for a couple of years now and have found it to be an encouraging and inclusive group. The Brewbabes section contains images that, while locker room in nature, are no different from what you’d find in a lot of beer advertising, i.e. busty barmaids, bikini girls holding beers, etc. Not that I mind scantily clad attractive women, but that’s not why I frequent HomeBrewTalk. Luckily, there’s an “ignore forum” button that allows you to block sections of the site.
Again, I’m sorry that you had the experience you did. There are too few female brewers as it is. Making one feel excluded or that she’s intruded on the frat party is inexcusable. I don’t represent the site, but I’ll apologize on its behalf. Most of us aren’t like that.
Chad
I’m sorry you got a bad impression of HBT (homebrewtalk.com) on your visit. It IS a very male-heavy hobby, but I’ve never been treated with anything but welcome and generosity by the members of the board. I guess it helps if you have a ribald sense of humor and can handle a combination of 1)male flattery and 2) tongue-in-cheek sexism.
There is a TON of valuable information there, and I enjoy the social side of it as well. I hope you’re willing to give it another shot. Your brewing will benefit, and you’ll realize it’s all in good fun.
I’m posting about this.
[…] I noticed a couple of posts had come in on my post about the sexism — and more crucially, censorship — of homebrewtalk.com. […]
I read this with interest not as a librarian but as a site moderator. As the one female moderator on a big internet website, we have to constantly and gently get the point across to a lot of people that “ironic sexism still reads like sexism to many people and it’s not really okay here.” One of the supposed downsides to opening up membership and growth generally is that some of these inside jokes don’t play as well to the larger crowds.
I’m okay with that, explaining and re-explaining and explaining again in careful language that what used to feel like our own living room is now a lot more like a public space and we need to use our public space voices and our public space words. I can handle tongue in cheek sexism just fine but I wouldn’t pay to get access to more of it — heck it’s FREE where I come from, all you can eat — and I think your objections were perfectly valid. I’m very surprised they decided to pull the entire thread, but maybe thay have terms of service supporting that sort of move.
Thanks for sharing the story, in any case.
Oh, how disappointing. I’m a female brewer and registered recently on the site. Like you, I saw the “premium membership” info, and looked to see what that was. There was nothing–no information at all. So I Googled.
I’m not really a humorless bitch, either, and frankly I don’t much care to “buy” access to photos of brew babes, but it wouldn’t stop me from getting premium membership if I thought it was a good deal for other reasons.
However, the whole idea that a (perfectly reasonable) question about “what am I buying here?” would cause them to scrub the thread is pretty disappointing.
All the homebrewers I know personally are awesome. Maybe this is the wrong brewing community for me.